international students

[angledge]

I just had a very long conversation with a Syrian woman who lives on my floor named Aliaa. Naturally, we talked politics.

I find it very difficult to discuss politics with people who are from the Middle East. First of all, I'm almost overwhelmed with some diluted feeling of guilt - I feel like saying, "I'm SO SORRY for what my government is doing ..." But another problem is that often I feel like we're dealing with two completely different sets of information, & both of us consider our set of information to be "the Facts". Aliaa doesn't believe any Arabs were involved in the 9/11 attacks: "I've met Arab religious fanatics. Believe me, they aren't organized enough to do something like this." I asked her why Palestinians were happy to hear about 9/11; she said they weren't. I said, "But CNN showed celebrations on the West Bank the day the news was received." She said the video of celebrating Palestinians was actually a year old, & that Fox News had issued an apology for showing it. I don't know if this is true or untrue. She also told me that American soldiers in Iraq are committing suicide in large numbers. I have heard NOTHING about this (hollyinpa, did your brother say anything about this??).

So - I'm not enough of a news junkie to have hard data at my fingertips to refute things she says, but even if I did, I sense that her reply would be, "The American media is not presenting all of the truth" or somesuch.

As a counterpoint, Ingrid & I met an Iraqi man in London who told us that we should be extremely proud of our nation's actions & that the overthrow of Saddam was the best thing that could've ever happened to Iraq.

Anybody have some insight/advice here? Please, serious comments only (this means you, Hiveboys).

Comments

[mrsjadephoenix.livejournal.com]

I am similarly confused and never know what to trust anymore as far as information about what's happening in the Middle East goes. I do agree that the overthrowing of Saddam's regime was a positive thing for Iraq, but I personally disagreed with the way we went about doing it, and I am really worried, now that we've gotten ourselves into this mess, how we're going to get ourselves out without doing too much more damage. It's going to be a long and incredibly expensive haul, and I don't trust our current administration enough to do a good job of it.

Basically, the whole situation sucks. ;-) That about sums up my personal opinion.

[marasca.livejournal.com]

Do Hivegirls count? ;)

I think the truth is somewhere inbetween, but I'd like to think that the American media is a bit closer to it because it's not essentially owned by the government. On the other hand, having worked for a press dept at a non-profit, I've seen press releases go essentially straight from out offices into newspapers, line for line. Of course, I believed my organization had the facts and was presenting them honestly, so that doesn't bother me in that case, but who knows how much also goes straight in from what I'd consider less trustworthy sources?

Part of the problem with the American news media is that they are, for the most part, corporations. They exist by selling news, and that means printing sexy stories. A billion "uninteresting" but important things are going on every day, but the ones that land on the cover of the paper are often the most entertaining and not the most life-altering. In an organization's press department, your goal is to make your dry story/science/whatever sound exciting and scandalous so you'll get coverage, and sometimes you're just SOL because something else is going on (like the CA recall, 2000 presidential election fiasco, OJ Simpson trial, whatever) that's sexier.

I don't know whether or not soldiers are killing themselves in droves, but I have heard something about many troops geing required to get therapy for depression and whatnot. I know a lot of female troops are being sent home preggers too. Of course, I can't find any of the articles about this right now, and I have to go home, but I'll look more later.

[hollyinpa.livejournal.com]

My brother was stationed over in Iraq for three months during the initial "war". He mentioned nothing of suicides or other instances of increased depression, but I would imagine that many of the soldiers over there are feeling overwhelmed, under-supported, and just plain ready to go home. I fear that our country has gotten itself into a whole heap o'trouble. While intentions may have been good (and, I am not sure that is entirely true!), I see no feasible, easy way out without more damage being done.

[chaosvizier.livejournal.com]

Serious answer. No jabber.

1) Arab religious fanatics ARE organized enough. As are any religious fanatics. As are any fanatics in general. The Ku Klux Klan was organized enough to strike fear into the hearts of thousands. The Catholic church was once organized enough to launch massive military crusades into Middle Eastern territory. Adolf Hitler was fanatic enough in his views to bring the entire world into conflict. Middle Eastern fanaticism is strongly rooted in Islam, but not all of them are out to demonstrate the power of Islam over other religious. Many are there to reject the "tyranny" of America and Western culture. That requires no religion, just fanaticism, resources, and incentive. And they have all of that.

2) The footage of palestinians cheering for 9/11 is, as far as I know, an inaccurate representation, using footage taken from past archives and shown for emphasis. And for that, Fox should be ashamed. This does not, granted, mean that zero Palestinians were happy on 9/11; I'm sure there were some who were pleased, even as I'm sure there were some who were mortified. But that is a situation that no doubt is mirrored in practically every country on the face of this earth, so it's not exactly a big issue. I'll bet you a hundred bucks that somewhere in the United Kingdom you will find someone who cheered on 9/11 and said "Take that, you bloody Yanks." And they might not even be "Arabic".

3) I don't know about Americans committing suicides in mass numbers over there. Somehow, I doubt it, because we have an assload of media personnel over there, and I would not doubt that at least one of them would have gotten wind of it. Yes, the soldiers there are dissatisfied with their situation, but I don't believe they are massively suicidal. However, I have no facts in this regard, so I cannot comment accurately.

4) The American media is most likely not presenting all of the truth. Any more than the Arab media is. Bias is inevitable on both sides. Quite honestly, every war should be accompanied by the Swiss media. Let their neutrality extend right into TV. Now that would be interesting...

5) My personal opinion: Whether the war was right or wrong is now a moot point. The war happened. The problem now is "occupation". For the most part, wars are fought for one purpose: Conquest. The taking of territory and the integration of that territory into that of the conquerors. Occupation with the intent of returning goes against that fundamental principle of war. If we would have gone in with the single-minded purpose of conquering Iraq, we could have solved a lot of problems. Tell me, Ang, how do you play Civilization? Do you not build up a superior armed force, then go in and completely eradicate the enemy and make their cities yours? Real life is no different.

[chaosvizier.livejournal.com]

See? We can be serious. I find your lack of faith disturbing, dear. ;)

[angledge.livejournal.com]

My dear Sith Master,

I didn't mean to imply that I never found your comments to be valuable, mature, & insightful. It's just that it's not usually your first instinct to make such comments. I wanted to be clear that this was a serious post, looking for serious opinions. Thanks for giving me such a thorough response!

Love ya, bubbie.

[marasca.livejournal.com]

Fox News- Fair and Accurate my ass! It always bothers me that when a news media outlet does something shitty like that, the mea culpa is rarely as loud as the original offense. I had heard about Palestinians cheering in the streets, but word that the footage was bogus never reached me. Thanks for clearing that up!