[special filter] Looking the gift horse right in the fucking mouth.

[angledge]

OK, this is angledge being really, really uncharitable. Time to vent a little bit about jacesan.

Background: I met jacesan in July 2005 at the ljdq Pub Crawl. I got super-drunk that evening, & I was flirting with him. He asked for my phone number & I gave it to him, & in the next few weeks we went out on two dates. The dates weren't that great, & his behavior was kind of weird (as a f'instance, he called me up drunk one night & told me all about his time in jail) (I have such great taste in men), so I met up with him & told him I wasn't interested in going out again. I met la chica at about the same time.

Since then, jacesan has been one of the top commenters on my LJ, & he specializes in extremely complimentary, flattering, fawning commentary. Now, don't get me wrong, a girl likes to hear a bit of praise every now & again.
But
there
is
a
point
where
flattery
... starts to become cloying (edit: or downright scary). On top of this, remember how he gave me that really weird gift last autumn - a bust of Katchoo from Strangers in Paradise? That was an expensive gift. I don't feel that this is normal behavior towards someone with whom you went out on two dates.

He's also donated $475 to my triathlon fundraiser. Holy shit. I'm deeply grateful for the contributions, but deeply suspicious about the motivation. I feel HORRIBLE for questioning someone's generosity, but when combined with all his other actions, it makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel that, because he knows I won't ignore anyone who makes a contribution, that he is buying my attention.

Added freaky-deaky: jacesan has subscribed to an EPA mailing list that lets him know where I'm working when I'm on emergency responses. It was after he told me this that I de-friended him. Call me paranoid, but it made me uncomfortable that he would know when I was working on sites as isolated as the Zeibright Mine, & that he would have the site address.

When I de-friended him, he started posting disturbing song lyrics as his answers to the ljdq. His latest contribution:

Dying all the time
Lose your dreams
And you will lose your mind.
Aint life unkind?

I don't actually think that jacesan represents a danger to me. But he does make me uncomfortable, & he does cause me to heavily censor &/or filter what I post to my own damn LJ. Am I just being paranoid here or is he actually being strange?

Comments

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

I'd be a bit freaked by the whole thing, too.

Maybe it's just our SE PA upbringing, but that level of generosity always makes me uncomfortable, too. The gift more than the donation because it was directly for you, but still. I'm also reminded of the guy who thought I was cute who lost all chances with me when he came to where I was working and bought a $5 doormat and paid for it with a $100 bill. First thing in the morning, leaving me with no change for the day. So not impressed by that.

And where I come from, guys don't compliment you like that unless they want to get in your pants.

But those two things alone aren't really such a big deal, but being able to track where you are for work is creepy.

[sskipstress.livejournal.com]

I meant to say that outside of SE PA, I've met men generous with gifts and compliments who really were just being nice. But the EPA thing is still creepy.

[angledge.livejournal.com]

I know he's a generous guy (the few times we hung out, he gave money to almost every homeless person who asked him for some change). I also know he has a personal reason to support the LLS (a friend of his god-daughter was just diagnosed). So that partially explains his support of my fundraising. But it's when it's combined with everything else that he does/has done that it starts to bother me.

[ataralas.livejournal.com]

Oh, no question about it, he's being weird. Very weird and creepy.

Have you talked to CV about banning him from ljdq?

You can also ban him from commenting on your journal at all. Means he could still read unlocked things, but can't comment.

[angledge.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I want to escalate this. He knows both my home & work addresses, as well as my cell phone number & work number. If I cut off all internet-based contact, might he not decide to contact me via other means?

[ataralas.livejournal.com]

My friend, you are already altering your behaviour because he makes you feel uncomfortable. Taking steps to relive that discomfort is not escalating things, it's repairing them.

My suggestion? Send him an email saying something along the lines of you'd prefer not to be in contact with him, and then just don't respond to him at all.

[angledge.livejournal.com]

Now I have written just such an email.

[trishalynn.livejournal.com]

It's not just you. I was looking at some of his entries pre-dating you and he sounds a bit off in those, too. Then again, that could be me projecting that behavior onto those entries but then again, how many guys do you know who had their first puff of weed at 8 and sold it in high school?

I say you get your biggest LJ-bruisers together, call him, and tell him to leave you alone. Or, you can ban him from commenting on your journal. It's your call, luv.

Balancing act.

[angledge.livejournal.com]

say you get your biggest LJ-bruisers together, call him, and tell him to leave you alone.

See, the thing is, I don't want to escalate this. He actually knows where I live & work. If I cut him off completely from contacting me via the internet, might he not decide to come see me in person?

Re: Balancing act.

[trishalynn.livejournal.com]

Not if you tell him kindly, but firmly that you feel uncomfortable being in contact with him and that you would appreciate it if he left you alone. You've already thanked him for the donation, and that's all you owe him.

But if you're that concerned, maybe you should talk to a woman's help line to see what they recommend you do? It never hurts to ask.

[chrysoberyl.livejournal.com]

If this guy's behavior is making you uncomfortable enough to censor your LJ entries and unfriend him, then his behavior is a problem. It is not paranoia to take action when your creepy stalker sense starts tingling. Excessive flattery in an online forum is one thing. The fact that he is keeping tabs on where you are and what you do at work is makes me uncomfortable on your behalf. How much detail about the sites and/or staff handling the sites is given out on the EPA mailing list? Do they ever send you to sites alone?

[angledge.livejournal.com]

The EPA mailing list only says that emergency response activities are taking place at a certain location at a certain time. But it gives specific addresses. The only way he would know if I was going to be at a specific location would be if I talked about it in my LJ - which is why I de-friended him.

I'm never at those sites alone, thankfully. There is always at least one EPA person, & usually a bunch of subcontractors.

[songquake.livejournal.com]

why the fuck is the EPA giving out info on where employees of their contractors are going? seems like a stalker's dream.

and yes, i concur with the above commenters that jacesan's behavior has sure as hell crossed the line from flattery to stalking creepiness. i mean, beyond the keeping tabs on your location thing, he seems to have had zero respect for any boundaries you've tried to set.

not that you are asking for advice, but at this point if you haven't told him you want no contact, do so, and document it. then do not respond at all to him anymore. do not engage. keep track of any contact he attempts after you've told him to bugger off, as in written logs of when contact was made and what was communicated. i know you don't think you're in any danger, but he's totally ringing my "stalker!" bells, and keeping a log will be useful if he persists in his pursuit of you -- in case you need to get a restraining order or something like that (in WA, they have what's called an "Anti-Harassment Order," which i always thought was a really cool innovation; i'm not sure if other states have that, though).

any time you respond to jacesan from here on out teaches him that you do not take the boundaries you set seriously. if you say no seventeen times, but say yes or maybe on the eighteenth time, what he'll learn is that he has to ask eighteen times to wear down your resolve.

and the donation he made is also ridiculous, and i think he's being manipulative.

[songquake.livejournal.com]

why the fuck is the EPA giving out info on where employees of their contractors are going? seems like a stalker's dream.

okay, so i get that they're not saying angledge is going here" with a big arrow and stuff. i retract my irritation at the EPA, and focus it all upon jacesan.

and i know you don't want things to escalate, but the thing is, if he comes to your home or work after you have made it clear you don't want contact, that's him being an obsessive stalking jerk. setting boundaries and safety-planning are definitely your best bet.

[angledge.livejournal.com]

why the fuck is the EPA giving out info on where employees of their contractors are going? seems like a stalker's dream.

They don't say which employees are going where. But they give specific addresses of sites & work dates. So, if I said on my LJ - "See you guys in a few days, I'm going to a mine work site", he could combine that information with the stuff from the mailing list & figure out where I was headed.

not that you are asking for advice, but at this point if you haven't told him you want no contact, do so, and document it.

I haven't said "no contact". I'm nervous about saying anything like that because 1) he hasn't actually DONE anything IRL - it's all internet-based & I'm sure that he could spin it as "I'm just a friendly guy", if anyone asked; 2) he knows where I work & live, & I worry that if I start making this confrontational he could just show up at my house or office. Or start calling me - he has an unlisted phone number (which I remember from when he was calling me last summer), but I *HAVE* to answer unlisted numbers because some of the EPA's numbers are also unlisted & they call my cell phone all the time.

any time you respond to jacesan from here on out teaches him that you do not take the boundaries you set seriously.

The only responses jacesan has gotten from me in the last few months are occasional replies to his comments (if they're reasonable comments), & thank-you emails for the donations. And the only reason I sent him thank-you emails for his donations is that I send EVERY donor a thank-you email, & it felt wrong not to thank him.

[songquake.livejournal.com]

I haven't said "no contact". I'm nervous about saying anything like that because 1) he hasn't actually DONE anything IRL - it's all internet-based & I'm sure that he could spin it as "I'm just a friendly guy", if anyone asked; 2) he knows where I work & live, & I worry that if I start making this confrontational he could just show up at my house or office. Or start calling me - he has an unlisted phone number (which I remember from when he was calling me last summer), but I *HAVE* to answer unlisted numbers because some of the EPA's numbers are also unlisted & they call my cell phone all the time.

yeah, but you seem to be really anxious about the fact that he does know where you work and live -- the fact that you're concerned that if he can't hear from you via the internet that he will show up is a huge red flag to me, you know? the thing is, if you haven't explicitly asked him to go away, he won't, and there won't be anything you can do about it. the dude's been hanging around for a year, for crying out loud, with very little encouragement. in any event, having to deal with him in the world of internet isn't bringing any peace to you, it seems. it also seems like you're worried about the fact that he can find you even though he still has some internet contact. setting things up so that you can have a legal recourse sucks ass, but at least will give you some more options if he gets any weirder.

(N.B., have i ever told you that i used to be a domestic violence survivors' advocate, and that the shelter i worked at in seattle was one for women who, almost universally, were being stalked? my responses here are rooted in that, because i see this creepy behavior as stuff that can easily slide into full-on stalking and violence. but i would also point out that from how you're writing here, you're already doing a lot of safety-planning, some of which is preventative, some of which is ameliorative. but what i'm seeing here is that he's already causing you to alter your behavior because of his actions or the perceived threat of them, and that's so not okay. i don't wanna be really overbearing, and i realize that i've probably long since crossed the line of being a busybody here, but i hate the thought of my friends getting stalked or harassed. it's No Good At All.)

also, i think you did do the right thing in sending a thank-you for his generous donation. i was more saying that if you don't want to hear from him anymore, telling him to go away and then refusing to respond to further contacts is probably the best way of doing that.

So what do you suggest I do?

[angledge.livejournal.com]

What would constitute asking for no contact? Should I send him an email that says something like, "I think you need to move on in your life & stop following my life so closely - please don't contact me any more, either through the internet or any other means?"

The thing that bugs me is that he hasn't stepped across any line that I can point to & say, "OK, now *THAT* is just not cool." He comments on my LJ? So do dozens of other people. He donated money to my fundraising campaign? I'm begging people to do that! He subscribed to an EPA mailing list? Well, the EPA wants people to subscribe to those - they're a matter of public record. I haven't seen him in person since last autumn, when I told him I didn't want to date him any more.

I just feel like a lot of people would say, "What are you worried about? So he keeps up on your LJ - isn't that why you write it?" The song lyrics thing on the LJDQ is a bit weirder, but it's still totally harmless.

I think I might try to compose an email that suggests he find some other woman to be interested in. But is it worse to send him a halfway email (like you said, by responding to contact #18 I'm only teaching him to be persistent)? Maybe I should just continue to ignore him.

Re: So what do you suggest I do?

[songquake.livejournal.com]

Should I send him an email that says something like, "I think you need to move on in your life & stop following my life so closely - please don't contact me any more, either through the internet or any other means?"

sending him an email saying just that would be good, though i might add that you specifically find the fact that he seems to be keeping tabs through the EPA list creepy. part of it, at least from my POV, is also the fact that if you leave him any room, he'll continue to think about you in terms of future possibilities -- i once had someone say "not now," when i asked him out, and that fueled my pathetic fantasies for years (though i never ended up stalking him -- he was my best friend at the time, and then we both came out...).

but since he seems to think that he's your friend, it might hurt him less, and become clearer what the fuck-up is, if you're specific. and if you state in the email that you will also not be responding to further comments, at least he'll know exactly where he stands. from there, any further actions he takes are clearly his own decision, and independent of any encouragement from you.

and while the stuff he's done all seems innocuous independently, it's the combination that is really ooky. i think that this is why most of the folks who have responded to your OP have reacted so strongly. sure, each individual bit is harmless, but when taken together, and especially since he's not someone you consider to be particularly close to you, it's a bit over-the-top.

[thechinesecurse.livejournal.com]

He's...being strange, but people are strange. It would definitely creep me out more than a little. For some reason the part that bugs me the most is bringing personal shit into the LJDQ. And the expensive gift. This is someone who doesn't understand boundaries.

[angledge.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the gift was weird.

So was this comment (http://angledge.livejournal.com/199224.html?thread=996152#t996152).

[thechinesecurse.livejournal.com]

.......no. Just no. You can't tell someone their sexual preference is what you want it to be, just because you want it to be that way.

There should be a question on that poll: If there was a pill that would get you back in touch with reality, would you take it?

(Me, personally, I don't know if I would. Reality can be an ominous place. Ominous! With thunder! Actually I quite like thunder.)

(...Don't mind me, a good spin on the bike always makes me a little loopy.)

[angledge.livejournal.com]

I think of all his comments, that one pissed me off the most.

Well, that & the creepy song lyrics on the LJDQ. Stop fucking with the Quiz, mister - that's my relaxation you're destroying.

(The bike makes me loopy too. Wheeeemotorcycle!)

[branniejan.livejournal.com]

Ultimately you need to do what is comfortable for you. If you feel at all threatened in your home or workplace, you will need to decide if you want to pursue this. Personally if he shows up at either of those places or if you find that he is following you, I would get on Valentina and run his ass over...Problem Solved. He has violated your personal boundaries and frankly he needs to back off and move on!